WITNO1670100
WITNESS: JULIE CLEIFE
STATEMENT NUMBER: WITNO167_01
EXHIBITS: 0
DATED: Jan 14, 2022
POST OFFICE HORIZON IT INQUIRY
FIRST WRITTEN STATEMENT OF JULIE CLEIFE
THIS STATEMENT IS PROVIDED IN RESPONSE TO THE RULE 9 REQUEST OF
THE PUBLIC INQUIRY DATED 29/10/2021 TO ADDRESS THE HUMAN IMPACT
OF THE FAILINGS OF THE HORIZON IT SYSTEM
I, MRS JULIE CLEIFE, Date of Birth I
“Iwill say as follows:-
PERSONAL BACKGROUND
4. lam currently 65 years old. I have been married to,sro} my husband, for almost
44 years.
2. We have 3 daughters together:
}. We also have 3 grandchildren:
3. Although our daughters do not live with us, they all live close by and we have a
very close relationship.
Page 1 of 12
WITNO1670100
4. I currently work in the community shop within the village I live in. I bake cakes
and prepare and cook hot food. I also help them with their paperwork. I work
around 20 hours a week.
5. Prior to becoming a sub-postmistress, I was employed by the Post Office as a
counter clerk for 2 years. This was in 1980. I then took time out to have my
children.
POST OFFICE HISTORY
6. I became Sub-Postmistress of the Over Wallop branch of the Post Office in April
1995.
7. At the time my husband was working nights as a delivery driver. We were
getting fed up with not being able to see each other so we decided to buy a
business that we could run together.
8. As I had some experience with working within the Post Office, this seemed the
obvious choice. So, we submitted a business plan to allow us to buy the Over
Wallop branch. I was interviewed and appointed as the Sub-Postmistress.
9. We sold our house and took out a mortgage to buy the Post Office. Attached to
the Post Office was a 5 bedroomed house which was our family home. The
branch included a convenience store whic! orked in; this ran successfully
until we gave the community the option to take this over as a community shop
in 2004.
10.1 took over the Nether Wallop Post Office branch in 2005 when the previous
Sub-postmistress passed away. The branch was located in the Village Hall and
it was only open for 2 mornings a week. I was specifically asked to take this role
Page 2 of 12
WITNO1670100
by my then manager. I was therefore the sub-postmistress at two post office
branches from this time.
CRIMINAL ALLEGATIONS AND ANY PROCEEDINGS/CONVICTION
11. Following an Audit at the Over Wallop branch in June 2010, a shortfall in the
sum of £25,614.45 was found.
12.I was forced by the Post Office to pay this alleged shortfall, otherwise I would
face criminal proceedings. In order to avoid prosecution, I paid the alleged
shortfall. 3 months later, in September 2010, I received a summons from the
Basingstoke Magistrates Court, stating that the Post Office was prosecuting me
for Fraud by False Representation.
13. Following the audit conducted at my Post Office I was suspended immediately.
14.On 4 June 2010 I attended an interview where I was questioned in relation to
the allegedly missing money.
15. In September 2010, I received a Summons to attend Basingstoke Magistrates
Court on charges of Fraud by False Representation.
16. Following a plea bargain and upon the advice from my criminal lawyers to avoid
a custodial sentence, I pleaded Guilty to one charge of Fraud by False
Representation at Basingstoke Magistrates Court on 26 October 2010. I still did
not think that I had done anything wrong. My case was then transferred to
Winchester Crown Court for sentencing.
17. In November 2010, I was sentenced to a 12 month Community Order with 100
hours of unpaid work. I paid Court costs in the sum of £500.
18. My conviction was quashed on 19 June 2021.
Page 3 of 12
WITNO1670100
THE HUMAN IMPACT
19. The human impact which the failings of the Horizon IT System have had and
continue to have upon me and my family are set out in the remainder of this
statement. The section headings follow the particular questions posed by the
Inquiry.
WHAT WERE THE CONSEQUENCES OF BEING REQUIRED TO MAKE GOOD
APPARENT SHORTFALLS SHOWN BY THE HORIZON IT SYSTEM?
20.After Horizon had been installed in my branch in Over Wallop in 2000,
unexplained shortfalls started showing. Prior to this I had not suffered any
unexplained shortfalls in either branch.
21.1 telephoned the Post Office Helpline but they were not helpful. They told me
that I would have to make good the unexplained shortfalls - by this they meant
I had to put my money in to balance the accounts. They could never actually
help me get to the bottom as to why this was happening, so I stopped calling
the Helpline.
22.To resolve the shortfalls, I had to put my own money into the branch. Initially
this was only small amounts so did not cause any financial concerns to me. I
felt this was only temporary and the account would balance itself out shortly.
23. In 2003 the custom at the attached shop was dwindling so we gave the
community the option to convert the shop into a community shop, this occurred
in 2004 and allowed ro’ to return to work. As!éko} was working, he was earning
enough so that the shortfalls I was having to pay were manageable.
Page 4 of 12
WITNO1670100
24. The Post Office did carry out a few audits during my time at the Over Wallop
branch but never raised any issue until the audit in June 2010 Over Wallop
branch.
25.Prior to the audit in June 2010, the unexplained shortfalls were getting larger,
and I could no longer afford to keep paying money into the Post Office. I felt
pressured to keep the branch open for the community and kept thinking the
balance problems would correct themselves eventually.
26. In June 2010, the auditors arrived at the Over Wallop branch. I immediately held
my hands up and informed them that I had been encountering shortfalls for
several years, so they will find this. The audit uncovered shortfalls in the sum
of £25,614.45. The auditors asked me where the money was, but I did not know.
27.When the auditors came in, I initially felt a sense of relief as I thought they would
be able to find where the error was - they would find the money, and this would
be over.
28. They were unable to do so, so the post office told me I had to make good the
shortfall. My husband and I cashed in our endowment policies on our mortgage
and borrowed some money from friends to allow us to pay this straight away.
The shortfall was settled long before the court summons arrived through the
post.
WHAT WERE THE COSTS OF MAKING GOOD ALLEGED SHORTFALLS SHOWN
BY HORIZON?
29. Due to the discrepancies I was experiencing at my Post Office, I felt I was left
in a position where I didn’t have a choice but to pay the shortfall. I was aware it
was my responsibility to make good any loss that Horizon showed, and so I
Page 5 of 12
WITNO1670100
would do this whenever the system showed a shortfall. I would do this out of
my own pocket until I was unable to carry on putting my own money in.
30.When the shortfalls got larger prior to the audit in June 2010, I could no longer
afford to correct the system. I stopped paying the shortfalls shown by Horizon
and £25,614.45 was discovered at an audit in June 2010.
HOW WERE YOU AFFECTED WHEN ALLEGED TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR
SHORTFALLS OR DISCREPANCIES SHOWN BY THE HORIZON IT SYSTEM?
31.Despite the financial struggle of making good the shortfall, which I was not
responsible for, it was such a relief when I thought things were settled. I had
been suffering sleepless nights leading up to the audit as I was not sure what
was happening and where the money was. I was waking up sweating through
the night, so it was such a relief for it to be over.
WHAT WERE THE CONSEQUENCES OF BEING HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR
SHORTFALLS AND DISCREPANCIES SHOWN BY THE HORIZON IT SYSTEM?
32. Immediately following the audit, I was suspended as the Sub-postmistress for
both branches. The auditors locked me out of the Post Office and took away
my paperwork.
33.On 4 June 2010, I was interviewed by the Post Office’s investigators at the
Eastleigh Post Office.
34.1 thought that the Post Office would treat me fairly, especially as I had no
representation. At this interview, it seemed as if the Post Office had already
presumed that I was guilty. They kept asking me where the money was. I told
them that I did not know and could not explain the shortfalls.
Page 6 of 12
WITNO1670100
35. The investigators searched my home, this did not concern me as I knew they
would not find anything as I had not taken anything. Even though it was not the
police conducting the search, I was under the impression that they had the
same powers as the police, so this made me feel like a criminal.
36. Following the interview, I resigned as Sub-postmistress for both branches. The
stress of what had been happening leading up to the audit, with the shortfalls
and sleepless nights, plus the way the investigators made me feel was just too
much.
37. The Over Wallop branch had to close for around a week. A replacement Sub-
postmaster was then found. He came down from London on train every day.
We had to pick him up from and drop him back off at the train station daily. He
rented the Post Office space from us, paying around £200 per month. This was
until around January 2011, when the Post Office was taken back over by the
community.
38.I had no means to earn a living and therefore had to sign up for employment
benefits.
39.IIn September 2010, I received a Summons to attend Basingstoke Magistrates
Court on charges of Fraud by False Representation.
40. Following a plea bargain, upon the advice from my criminal lawyers to avoid a
custodial sentence, I pleaded Guilty to 1 charge of Fraud by False
Representation at Basingstoke Magistrates Court on 26 October 2010. I still did
not think that I had done anything wrong. My case was then transferred to
Winchester Crown Court for sentencing.
Page 7 of 12
WITNO1670100
WHAT WERE YOUR FINANCIAL LOSSES CAUSED BY ACTION TAKEN AGAINST
YOU IN RELIANCE UPON HORIZON DATA?
41.I had to apply for employment benefits as I could not find a job. I was applying
for lots of jobs but not offered an interview or provided with any feedback. The
jobs that I applied for were within my capability and I had the relevant
experience for them. I therefore consider the lack of success was due to my
conviction, which I had to declare on the application forms.
42. This made me feel very deflated, apart from a period I took out to have my
children I had always worked.
43. Applying for benefits was one of the worst things which I had to do. The whole
process is designed to make you feel humiliated, like you are not doing enough
to try and secure employment.
44. Thankfully I still had the support of the community and was offered a job in the
community shop, making cakes, and cooking hot food. I still do this job today,
but my salary is nowhere near the £30,000.00 per year I received as sub-
postmistress.
45. As we could not afford to pay our bills and the mortgage for our house, we sold
land on our property to a builder. The builder built another property on the land.
46. The proceeds of this sale allowed us to repay our friend and also pay off our
mortgage, so we did not have to worry about this monthly bill. The mortgage
had to be paid off this way as we had already cashed in our endowment policy
on the mortgage to cover the Post Office Shortfall. This should have been used
to pay the mortgage off at the end of the term.
Page 8 of 12
WITNO1670100
WHAT EFFECT DID IT HAVE TO BE ACCUSED OF COMMITTING CRIMINAL
OFFENCES AS A RESULT OF SHORTFALLS AND DISCREPANCIES SHOWN BY
THE HORIZON IT SYSTEM?
47. After making good the shortfall I thought this was an end to it all. I was sleeping
a little better.
48. There had been no police involvement, so the thought of criminal consequences
did not even cross my mind. It was such a shock when the court summons
landed on my doorstep.
49.1 was due to go on holiday the morning this arrived, after everything we had
been through over the past few months, '« ind I deserved a break, so I did not
tell him about the summons.
50.1 could think of nothing else but what might happen to me for the first few days
of our holiday. It was obvious to friends who were holidaying with us with that
something was wrong, but I was adamant this would not ruin our holiday so
after the first few days I put this to the back of my mind and enjoyed our holiday.
I did not tell anyone what I had received as I knew there was nothing I could do
until I returned to the UK.
51.Upon my return, my sleep became disturbed again. I was so frightened about
what might happen to me. I had attended my GP for an unrelated issue and
when my blood pressure was checked, it was high. I felt very stressed after the
summons. I had to take a course of medication for my blood pressure.
WHAT WERE THE CONSEQUENCES OF BEING CONVICTED OF A CRIMINAL
OFFENCE AS A RESULT OF SHORTFALLS AND DISCREPANCIES SHOWN BY
THE HORIZON IT SYSTEM?
Page 9 of 12
WITNO1670100
52.1 was sentenced to a Community Order for 12 months with 100 hours of unpaid
work. I was ordered to pay £500 in Court costs.
53. At the time I was just so relieved that it was all over, and I had not been sent to
Prison.
54. For my Community Order, I worked at a Charity Shop about 10 miles away. I
went once a week. The Manager was very good and understood why I was
there. I initially worked upstairs sorting through all the donated items. Then I
was moved onto the shop floor and ended up dressing the windows. People did
not seem to know why I was there, they just assumed I was another volunteer
so there was no negativity whilst I completed my community service.
55. My conviction was reported in the local press. I felt this impacted my very good
reputation in the community and made me feel anxious In reality, however I
believe my community was supportive of me.
56. We had planned to develop the land when we retired so we had that opportunity
taken away from us and the financial benefit at retirement.
WHAT EFFECT DID THESE ISSUES HAVE UPON YOUR RELATIONSHIPS WITH
YOUR FAMILY, FRIENDS, COLLEAGUES AND LOCAL COMMUNITY?
57. Whilst I was experiencing the shortfalls in the accounts, I did not want to worry
so I did not inform him of the issues. I thought it would resolve itself andi
is a worrier, so I did not want to cause him any stress.
58. After the audit the significant financial stress put a strain on our relationship.
We had to sort out how we were going to cover the shortfall I was asked to pay,
we had to borrow money from a friend and cash in our endowment policy. We
seemed to muddle through this ok though.
Page 10 of 12
WITNO1670100
59. There were some tensions in our relationship after the audit as lasked why
I did not tell him what was happening. As my husband, he wanted to support
me through this but was not given the opportunity.
60. My children were wonderfully supportive through the whole process. They never
doubted my innocence.
61.1 was also very lucky that I retained a lot of the support and confidence of the
community. I don’t recall receiving any direct negative comments.
62. The Over Wallop branch had to close for a week after the audit. No one really
knew what was happening at this time, initially the community just though I had
had enough and given up my role.
63. There was some inconvenience to the community as they had to use the post
office in the next village for around a week. I was informed sometime later, by
a family friend, that the Postmaster there had made some derogatory comments
about me, but my reputation was defended by a family friend.
64.1 did avoid being seen in the community for a few weeks after my court case I
did not know how people would react. I felt like people would gossip - I felt
ashamed and embarrassed.
PLEASE DESCRIBE THE DIRECT AND INDIRECT EFFECT WHICH THESE
ISSUES HAD UPON THE MEMBERS OF YOUR FAMILY?
was very concerned about what would happen after the conviction. We had
been advised by my solicitor that a custodial sentence was a real possibility.
I was physically sick from all the stress.
After my sentencing
Page 11 of 12
WITNO1670100
CONCLUDING REMARKS
66. Nothing will be able to undo what has happened to us. The feelings of anxiety
and worry of not knowing where the shortfalls were coming from, hiding this
from my husband and the feeling of anxiety as to how my community would
react will stay with me for ever.
Statement Of Truth
I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true.
Position Or
Office Held:
Print Full Date of signature: Jan 14, 2022
Name: JULIE CLEIFE
FILE REFERENCE:
Page 12 of 12
WITNO1670100